Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

03/31/2011 03:00 PM House ENERGY


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03:04:03 PM Start
03:04:39 PM Overview: Alaska Propane Project by the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority (angda
04:19:13 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Update on the Alaska Propane Project by the TELECONFERENCED
Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ENERGY                                                                              
                         March 31, 2011                                                                                         
                           3:04 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Lance Pruitt, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
Representative Dan Saddler                                                                                                      
Representative Pete Petersen                                                                                                    
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW:  Alaska Propane Project by the Alaska Natural Gas                                                                     
Development Authority (ANGDA)                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HAROLD HEINZE, Chief Executive Officer (CEO)                                                                                    
Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority (ANGDA)                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced the Alaska Propane Project to                                                                 
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MARY ANN PEASE, Consultant                                                                                                      
Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority (ANGDA)                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the Overview of the Alaska                                                              
Propane Project.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PAUL FUHS, Consultant                                                                                                           
Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority (ANGDA)                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during  the Overview of the Alaska                                                             
Propane Project.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:04:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  LANCE  PRUITT called  the  House  Special Committee  on                                                             
Energy meeting  to order  at 3:04  p.m.   Representatives Pruitt,                                                               
Lynn,  Petersen, and  Olson were  present at  the call  to order.                                                               
Representatives Saddler, Tuck, and  Foster arrived as the meeting                                                               
was in progress.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:04:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^Overview:   Alaska  Propane Project  by the  Alaska Natural  Gas                                                               
Development Authority (ANGDA                                                                                                    
  Overview:  ALASKA PROPANE PROJECT BY THE ALASKA NATURAL GAS                                                               
                  DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY (ANGDA                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
3:04:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT announced  that the only order  of business would                                                               
be updates  on the Alaska  Propane Project by the  Alaska Natural                                                               
Gas Development Authority (ANGDA).                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:05:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT  spoke of his  interest in the subject  and noted                                                               
the  Alaska  North  Slope  Propane   Conference  is  underway  in                                                               
Anchorage.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:06:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HAROLD HEINZE, Chief Executive Officer  (CEO), Alaska Natural Gas                                                               
Development Authority  (ANGDA), stressed the importance  of ANGDA                                                               
weighing in  on the subject  of the  Alaska Propane Project.   He                                                               
explained that ANGDA  is a public corporation  formed through the                                                               
initiative process  in the  2002 election.   It  has worked  on a                                                               
wide variety  of projects  consistent with  its mission  of bring                                                               
North Slope  gas to  market in a  method that  benefits Alaskans.                                                               
He  highlighted that  "benefits  Alaskans" is  the  key piece  of                                                               
delivering gas  statewide.  He  related that ANGDA has  worked on                                                               
numerous aspects  of the  issue and  given its  limited resources                                                               
has  most recently  focused  on areas  that  represent the  prime                                                               
importance in  Alaska.  First,  ANGDA has participated  on behalf                                                               
of the  electric utilities of  Alaska in the open  season process                                                               
of both  of the big pipeline  projects:  the Denali  Pipeline and                                                               
the Alaska Pipeline Project.   He emphasized that working in this                                                               
process  has  put  ANGDA  in the  position  for  many  electrical                                                               
customers  to enjoy  the benefits  of reduced  transmission costs                                                               
for North  Slope gas when  the pipeline  is built.   The pipeline                                                               
may affect  up to 75  percent of  Alaskans.  Secondly,  ANGDA has                                                               
focused its  efforts on North  Slope propane since  a substantial                                                               
amount of propane,  which is a heavier gas  molecule, also exists                                                               
in  the vast  North Slope  reserves.   Bringing  this propane  to                                                               
market could assist  Alaskans who will not  directly benefit from                                                               
the  big pipeline.    He attested  by  working simultaneously  on                                                               
these issues, ANGDA can assist Alaskan consumers.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS offered his belief  that a wholesale propane facility on                                                               
the North  Slope and actively  participating in the  big pipeline                                                               
process  fit in  the total  picture  of providing  power for  the                                                               
state.   He  acknowledged the  uncertainty  of when  and how  the                                                               
North Slope gas  can be tapped but stressed that  both ideas will                                                               
be pursued.   The North Slope  natural gas reserves, in  terms of                                                               
natural  gas and  natural gas  liquids such  as propane,  are far                                                               
more  extensive that  Alaska  can  ever use.    He predicted  the                                                               
reserves  are 10  to  20  times greater  than  Alaska's needs  so                                                               
Alaska must  look for  markets outside  the state.   He  said the                                                               
market has changed and ANGDA  sees opportunities for in-state use                                                               
and export  to support the  economies of scale.   Initially ANGDA                                                               
considered  a small  scale facility  on the  North Slope  but the                                                               
market  did not  warrant the  investment risk.   He  related that                                                               
currently ANGDA is  working with the Prudhoe Bay  Unit owners and                                                               
ANGDA is  poised to better accomplish  this project, particularly                                                               
given the export opportunities that  should provide the economies                                                               
of scale.   He cautioned that all costs must  be considered since                                                               
it is not only the cost  of purchasing propane and separating the                                                               
molecules,  but  the  cost of  delivering  them  that  determines                                                               
whether this  energy source is a  bargain or has a  high value to                                                               
the consumer.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:14:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY  ANN  PEASE,  Consultant,  Alaska  Natural  Gas  Development                                                               
Authority  (ANGDA), stated  she is  pleased to  be attending  the                                                               
Alaska   North  Slope   Propane   Conference  with   stakeholders                                                               
attending  from  all  over  the  U.S.    All  facets  of  propane                                                               
distribution  are  under  discussion,  including  infrastructure,                                                               
transportation   opportunities,   distribution,  and   financing.                                                               
ROUSCH CleanTech has  been active with auto  racing has partnered                                                               
with  Ford Motor  Company  to develop  a  protein fuel  injection                                                               
system for fleet services throughout the world.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE  began her presentation  "Connecting Alaskans  to their                                                               
Natural Gas."  She referred  to a map depicting proposed pipeline                                                               
routes [slide  1].  She related  that the map depicts  all of the                                                               
proposed pipeline  projects but  the proposed pipeline  routes do                                                               
not  reach many  parts of  the state.   ANGDA  would fill  in the                                                               
areas in  the state that will  never be reached by  any pipeline.                                                               
The  propane  project  would  off-take  North  Slope  propane  at                                                               
strategic  compressor stations  once a  pipeline is  built.   The                                                               
ANGDA's intent is to develop a  market for propane from the North                                                               
Slope  that would  provide an  attractive  alternative to  costly                                                               
diesel.  The  current price of home heating oil  in the Northwest                                                               
Arctic Borough  was reported  at the  Alaska North  Slope Propane                                                               
Conference  today at  $9.85.    Resources for  in  state use  and                                                               
expanding  to   Asian  markets   could  provide   jobs,  industry                                                               
development, and opportunities.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE listed propane's benefits  and opportunities [slide 2].                                                               
The picture  for propane  changed several years  ago with  oil at                                                               
$144  per barrel.   She  related  her understanding  that it  was                                                               
always envisioned that  propane would be transported  on the main                                                               
pipeline and  off-takes would provide  propane to other  parts of                                                               
the state.   When oil  increased to  $144 per barrel  North Slope                                                               
propane rose as an alternative  source for non-discretionary home                                                               
heating and  lighting.   She predicted that  the plan  to provide                                                               
propane  to the  state could  be developed  and operational  in a                                                               
two-year  period well  ahead  of any  pipeline  completion.   The                                                               
benefit  of using  North Slope  propane  is that  it provides  an                                                               
attractive clean fuel  for rural Alaska.  Many  of the discussion                                                               
points at  the conference have  highlighted the reality  that the                                                               
transition to ultra-low sulfur diesel  is costly and unattainable                                                               
to  many  rural  Alaska's  communities  [slide 3].    It  is  not                                                               
possible to  build sufficient storage  or get the supply  to meet                                                               
rural Alaska's requirements.   Propane has been  used for decades                                                               
and  the  price  advantage  of   North  Slope  propane  saves  on                                                               
transportation.  It  is being priced with the North  Slope as the                                                               
market point rather  than transporting it from  Prince Rupert via                                                               
barge to Whittier  and transporting it via rail  to Fairbanks and                                                               
beyond.   To do  so, cuts  off a huge  portion of  the logistical                                                               
"train."    Propane  would transcend  the  natural  gas  pipeline                                                               
route.    Even  with  a   natural  gas  pipeline,  there  is  the                                                               
opportunity  to provide  propane  to critical  markets in  Alaska                                                               
beyond Southcentral.   She emphasized  the volumes of  C3 propane                                                               
are world class.  This  opportunity could expand beyond Alaska to                                                               
national  markets.   Today there  is  no market  for North  Slope                                                               
propane.     Currently  Prudhoe   Bay  unit  operators   have  an                                                               
operational  target   for  the  maximum  amount   of  propane  to                                                               
facilitate  injection  to keep  oil  flowing  through the  Trans-                                                               
Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS).                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE offered her belief  that in examining the petrochemical                                                               
market, the 20,000 billion cubic  feet (bcf/d) per day of propane                                                               
could  be  supplied by  direct  marine  export  [slide 4].    She                                                               
recalled  Lt. Governor  Mead  Treadwell's  comments this  morning                                                               
about arctic  transportation corridors  beginning to emerge.   He                                                               
said  the  reduced  extent  and thickness  of  polar  ice  routes                                                               
creates  potential   transportation  opportunities   through  the                                                               
Arctic that will  add to the market.  She  pointed out that ANGDA                                                               
is  willing to  facilitate and  bring the  stakeholders together.                                                               
The project will be a private  sector project that will be driven                                                               
by  markets and  business  sense.   ANGDA is  part  of an  Alaska                                                               
Propane  Consortium Group  that  has been  meeting in  Anchorage.                                                               
She  stressed the  discussions with  producers  to highlight  the                                                               
opportunities beyond Alaska.   A vibrant business  case exists to                                                               
open up potential.  She discussed  the logistics to Asia and U.S.                                                               
West Coast [slide  5].  She anticipated the  proposed natural gas                                                               
pipeline  would  provide  4.5  bcf/d  of  gas  unless  a  smaller                                                               
diameter pipeline  was built. She  stressed that  110,250 barrels                                                               
per day represents a worldwide  opportunity.  Alaska's demand has                                                               
been estimated at 3,000 to  3,500 barrels per day, which provides                                                               
an in state perspective on the magnitude of natural gas.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:24:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE  stated the  volume  in  the  pipeline will  create  a                                                               
worldwide  opportunity.   She  highlighted  the "Feedstock  Based                                                               
Cracker Production Capacities" and  noted that the composition of                                                               
liquids available  has not changed significantly  since 2004 when                                                               
these  figures were  developed for  the right-of-way  application                                                               
[slide 6].   She reported  that the  "Alaska Gas &  NGL Potential                                                               
Uses" slide garnered attention at  the conference [slide 7].  The                                                               
rich  stream of  gas  holds  many types  of  gas opportunity  for                                                               
imports and exports,  which is dependent upon  the private sector                                                               
development  and  marketing.    She commented  that  many  people                                                               
attending  the  conference  also  participate  in  the  worldwide                                                               
Propane Gas  Association.  Participants  at the  conference noted                                                               
that  Hawaii  and  Asia have  insatiable  appetites  for  propane                                                               
[slide  8].    Hawaii  consumes a  million  gallons  of  imported                                                               
propane per day on one island  alone.  They are keenly interested                                                               
in obtaining  propane from the  U.S. rather than Asia.   Bringing                                                               
together  the stakeholders  and having  industry represented  has                                                               
been  one  of   the  things  ANGDA  has  been   working  hard  to                                                               
accomplish.   There  is a  channel  to market  issue for  exports                                                               
[slide 9].   She emphasized the opportunity  that partnering with                                                               
a  U.S.  company  could have  to  facilitate  market  development                                                               
activities in a  sustainable manner. ANGDA is  asking the Prudhoe                                                               
Bay  owners to  perform technical  evaluation of  liquids and  to                                                               
consider  development  of  a   logistical  facility  [slide  10].                                                               
Initially, ANGDA  worked solely on the  in state market.   The in                                                               
state market  is important to  Alaska and its  rural communities.                                                               
However, it does not rise  to a compelling commercial transaction                                                               
for  the  North  Slope  operators.    ANGDA  also  considers  the                                                               
worldwide  needs,  including  Asia   and  the  U.S.  West  Coast.                                                               
Additionally,  technical  work  needs  to be  done  on  the  cost                                                               
estimates for modifications and  requirements for the central gas                                                               
facility.   She offered her  belief that a minimum  investment of                                                               
$300,000 will be necessary on  technical and feasibility studies.                                                               
This  would provide  a marketing  plan from  the State  of Alaska                                                               
that  would  identify  the  market opportunity  in  a  clear  and                                                               
defined  manner and  a non-unit  logistical  facility to  receive                                                               
individual propane sales.   That means ANGDA is asking  to put in                                                               
place a  very rich extraction  stream of the North  Slope propane                                                               
at  a  wholesale   facility  which  makes  it   available  to  an                                                               
aggregator and  other users  within the  state.   She highlighted                                                               
the positive nature  of doing so.  It is  possible to develop the                                                               
site separate  from the  Prudhoe Bay  unit.    She  remarked that                                                               
this would  be a  very small  volume, about  2,500 barrels  in an                                                               
extremely high-cost plant  estimated to cost $20  million for the                                                               
initial  development cost.   She  related her  understanding that                                                               
these changes could happen for  a small investment to the central                                                               
gas  facility  right before  the  propane  extraction plant  that                                                               
currently exists.   She said to do so could  result in 20 million                                                               
barrels per day which presents a compelling business argument.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:30:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE  referred to a  study done by Northern  Economics, Inc.                                                               
on the  Alaska Pipeline  Project In-state  Gas Study  [slide 11].                                                               
This study  encompassed the  Denali pipeline  project as  well as                                                               
the   Alaska  Pipeline   Project.     This  study   examined  the                                                               
opportunity for  propane once the  proposed natural  gas pipeline                                                               
is built.  She pointed out that  in zero to five years the demand                                                               
will  still be  about  the  same, about  3,000  barrels per  day.                                                               
However, the demand grows to 30,000  barrels per day in years 10-                                                               
15.   She  remarked  on  the potential  for  in-state demand  for                                                               
propane as  an alternative energy  source at a  reasonable price.                                                               
She  pointed  out  the  need  for  propane  for  fleet  services.                                                               
Currently,  hundreds of  barrels of  ultra low-sulfur  diesel are                                                               
trucked  to  the  North  Slope  to  provide  for  fleet  services                                                               
operation and the  cost is extremely high.   She anticipated that                                                               
a fueling  station could  provide Alaska's  propane on  the North                                                               
Slope if the  fleet were to be converted to  propane, which would                                                               
avoid  spill  issues.    She   highlighted  that  this  idea  and                                                               
opportunity  is  beginning  to   gain  traction.    Additionally,                                                               
propane could  be used for  exploration and  drilling, industrial                                                               
applications  such  as  electrical generation,  and  transitional                                                               
development  from in-state  and North  Slope- use  to longer-term                                                               
export.  The best opportunity  is for rural community and village                                                               
home heating.   She  pointed out  that providing  alternatives to                                                               
the $9.85  per gallon in Kotzebue  and beyond is one  thing ANGDA                                                               
is focused on  and can do today.   The "Propane Barging/Tankering                                                               
Direct  from North  Slope"  could happen  direct  from the  North                                                               
Slope  [slide 13].   Ms.  Pease concluded  that if  Alaska had  a                                                               
propane wholesale facility  on the North Slope  the propane could                                                               
be   trucked,   barged,   or    exported   directly   to   mining                                                               
opportunities, gas operations  in Cook Inlet, to  Hawaii, and for                                                               
use by petrochemical  manufacturer's in-state, as well  as to the                                                               
Lower  48 and  West Coast  for seasonal  demand.   She emphasized                                                               
that  this  opportunity  could  so  easily  be  accomplished  and                                                               
embraces  the   private  sector   and  development   of  Alaska's                                                               
resources  in  a  sustainable   and  opportunistic  manner  going                                                               
forward.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:34:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SADDLER    asked   whether   the    propane   is                                                               
compressible.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE answered that  it is a liquid, but air  can be added to                                                               
it  so it  can be  injected.   She offered  to provide  technical                                                               
applications.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:36:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  referred  to  the cost  of  the  propane                                                               
separation   facility  on   the   North  Slope   and  asked   for                                                               
clarification on whether it would  be incorporated just above the                                                               
gas treatment facility.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE answered yes, that  would be the unoptimized plant that                                                               
would produce  about 2,500 barrels  per day.  She  explained that                                                               
if the  North Slope  owners changed the  central gas  system, the                                                               
result  would  reduce  the  cost   and  increase  the  volume  to                                                               
approximately 20,000  barrels of  propane per  day.   She related                                                               
that the goal is to reduce the  overall cost and bring it back to                                                               
the Prudhoe Bay unit to see  if the producers and owners would be                                                               
willing to  consider this as  a business market opportunity.   If                                                               
not, there  is a backup plan  that this project is  viable over a                                                               
period of time.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:37:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER related  his  understanding $200  million                                                               
would  provide a  stand-alone facility  that would  produce 2,500                                                               
barrels per day.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE  agreed noting that it  is so expensive since  it would                                                               
take a full-gas  stream with the CO2 still needing  to be removed                                                               
and the  plant would not be  located in the optimal  place on the                                                               
North Slope.   She explained the  goal is to work  with the North                                                               
Slope  owners  and  producers  to   work  to  develop  a  propane                                                               
wholesale facility  that would utilize the  more optimized richer                                                               
stream of propane  ahead of the propane  extraction facility that                                                               
exists  today  prior  to  injection.    In  further  response  to                                                               
Representative   Saddler,  she   agreed   that   it  would   take                                                               
approximately $300,000  for a  study.  She  remarked that  she is                                                               
encouraged  by  the  preliminary   discussions  and  work.    The                                                               
preliminary findings  indicate the  opportunity is  so incredible                                                               
the producers and owners should  embrace it since it would likely                                                               
pan out.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:38:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN recalled the  British Thermal Units (BTU)                                                               
values of  propane are two-thirds of  diesel.  He asked  what the                                                               
cost would be in Kotzebue to outline the potential savings.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE  answered that  the BTU for  propane equals  91,600 per                                                               
gallon and  on fuel oil  is 145,000 per  gallon.  She  offered to                                                               
provide a  slide she developed  for the conference which  puts it                                                               
on a one million BTU (MMBtu)  equivalent basis.   Thus, basically                                                               
a customer paying $2.90 for fuel  oil would pay $1.83 for propane                                                               
under  the  MMBtu basis.    She  explained  the premise  is  that                                                               
communities currently use propane so  if it could be sourced from                                                               
the North  Slope instead of  transporting it from  Prince Rupert,                                                               
Alaska can ensure  the product would be cheaper  from North Slope                                                               
and would use existing equipment.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:40:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT recalled  the  propane distribution  map at  the                                                               
ANGDA office.   He also  recalled the Lt. Governor's  comments at                                                               
the conference.  He inquired  as to the feasibility and potential                                                               
to  transport propane  directly  from North  Slope.   He  further                                                               
inquired as  to whether  as to the  infrastructure needed  and if                                                               
any special  equipment would be  needed to transport  propane via                                                               
rivers and the Arctic Ocean.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PEASE offered  one  presentation at  the  conference was  on                                                               
"steel intermodal  containers" known  as ISO containers  that can                                                               
be stacked  and placed  on barges and  transported via  rivers to                                                               
rural  Alaska's communities.   She  recalled that  ISO containers                                                               
are  stacked eight  or  nine  high on  vessels  for transport  to                                                               
Hawaii, and  other places.  She  related that the ice  opening up                                                               
on the North  Slope presents an opportunity to  expand the length                                                               
of time  annually to reach  communities.  She stated  that barges                                                               
have  a  lower  draft.    More  importantly,  the  technology  is                                                               
changing including a truck with a  crane built into it that could                                                               
be loaded on  a barge and used in towns  and villages to off-take                                                               
the ISO containers  as well as transport the  containers to other                                                               
locations.  She recalled one  consideration mentioned would be to                                                               
load the ISO  on a sled facility to transport  during the winter.                                                               
She noted  that many  of the  villages are  more isolated  in the                                                               
winter and access is by snow machine or sled.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:43:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEINZE  elaborated on the  Arctic ice conditions.   He stated                                                               
that  ANGDA is  looking at  a  direct shipment  from Prudhoe  Bay                                                               
through the  Beaufort Sea and ice  for a number of  decades.  The                                                               
"game  changer" that  has occurred  the past  few years  has been                                                               
that the Arctic ice cap has  withdrawn hundreds of miles from the                                                               
coastline.  Thus,  when the ice freezes each year  it is referred                                                               
to as  "one-year ice" which is  thinner and can be  broken in the                                                               
winter by  tankers and other ships  not considered "icebreakers."                                                               
Smaller ocean-going tankers can  be strengthened and could obtain                                                               
access  8-9 months  of  the  year.   He  described possible  port                                                               
facilities for Arctic conditions  including necessary water depth                                                               
of 30-40 feet.  He stated  some ice related technologies that may                                                               
allow  a  protected  atoll,  loading  facilities  below  the  ice                                                               
surface.   Major  concerns surrounding  tankers  have related  to                                                               
oil.   Propane  tankers are  pressure tanks,  double hulled,  and                                                               
spilled propane  evaporates so it does  not represent traditional                                                               
types of contamination.   He related that ANGDA  has been working                                                               
to  identify   interested  partners  who  are   willing  to  help                                                               
investigate  issues to  gain access  to a  world class  supply of                                                               
natural gas.  He offered his belief that some partners exist.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:47:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER inquired  as  to  the capital  transition                                                               
cost  from fuel  oil  to  propane.   He  further  inquired as  to                                                               
whether  the burners  work  the same  and if  it  is possible  to                                                               
convert from one fuel source to another.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. PEASE  answered that the  conversion cost would be  low, well                                                               
under  $2,000.   Conversion of  appliances would  be paid  for by                                                               
savings  in one  year.   Also,  there are  rebates available  for                                                               
clean-burning fuel.   She  offered her  belief that  rural Alaska                                                               
would embrace propane  and the issue is just  obtaining the lower                                                               
cost propane source instead of importing the propane.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEINZE  added that in  terms of home heating  that homeowners                                                               
would likely  add propane heaters  in addition to  their existing                                                               
diesel fuel  source.  Thus,  he did not envision  that homeowners                                                               
would remove existing  equipment, but would add  to their systems                                                               
to provide alternatives  for homeowners.  He stated  that in many                                                               
conditions in rural  Alaska it is important  to have redundancies                                                               
and alternatives.  The cost of  adding another heater is small in                                                               
comparison to the  annual heating bill.   Additionally, ANGDA did                                                               
not anticipate an  instant conversion of everyone in  Alaska.  He                                                               
thought  it could  take a  full  generation for  that to  happen.                                                               
Some  residents, such  as in  the Northwest  Arctic Borough  have                                                               
difficult logistics  so the  motive isn't so  much as  price, but                                                               
the logistics.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:51:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL FUHS,  Consultant, Alaska Natural Gas  Development Authority                                                               
(ANGDA),  stated  that he  contracted  with  ANGDA to  perform  a                                                               
logistics  study.   It  began  with  water-related logistics  but                                                               
extended  to  rail,  trucking,   pipeline  production  and  other                                                               
facets.   He suggested that  a high degree of  uncertainty exists                                                               
with respect  to the  natural gas pipeline,  the Susitna  Dam, or                                                               
for  any major  project.   He offered  his belief  that with  any                                                               
scenario propane could play a role.   He said the propane project                                                               
would fit in  with any natural gas pipeline  project.  Currently,                                                               
propane could be  developed in the short term on  the North Slope                                                               
or for the  long term, off-takes could be placed  at points along                                                               
a natural  gas pipeline.   He offered  to discuss  the logistics.                                                               
Thus, propane is  a good project to invest in  since it has long-                                                               
term impacts  in terms of  energy policy.  He  stated differences                                                               
in  propane versus  natural gas.   Generally,  propane represents                                                               
about two  percent of the  gas steam in the  North Slope.   It is                                                               
not efficient since  it requires processing 98  percent to obtain                                                               
two  percent propane.   He  answered an  earlier question  noting                                                               
that the  North Slope propane works  out to about $2  per gallon.                                                               
However,  if one  could  get  to the  point  in  the central  gas                                                               
processing  plant with  the highest  concentration of  propane it                                                               
would reach 35 percent of propane  within the stream.  That would                                                               
vastly reduce  the processing  costs so  he calculated  that that                                                               
would reduce costs to about $.50  per gallon.  The original ANGDA                                                               
contract  with one  of the  suppliers  used the  two percent  gas                                                               
stream.   Currently,  the central  gas processing  plant requires                                                               
all three Prudhoe Bay operating  unit operators to agree which is                                                               
a  more  complicated  process that  he  characterized  as  "three                                                               
moving parts."   He did not think that this  aspect mattered much                                                               
overall to  the oil companies  but it  would make a  different to                                                               
Alaska.   He  suggested  this  could be  a  talking point  during                                                               
discussions with  the operators  since it  could be  important to                                                               
Alaska.  He said if any  pipeline was built that a straddle plant                                                               
could be  added to any location  on a pipeline.   He related that                                                               
the Yukon River was reviewed  as a potential plant location since                                                               
the Yukon  River is the  best place  for river access  to Western                                                               
Alaska.  Additionally,  the Yukon River has the  deepest water so                                                               
the larger barges  cost efficient barges can be used.   He stated                                                               
that natural gas would be  processed at Fairbanks into methane so                                                               
the propane would  also be pulled off.  Whether  a bullet line or                                                               
other  pipeline is  built it  would make  sense to  have a  plant                                                               
located in Fairbanks  and make deliveries to Tok  or other places                                                               
by truck.   A bullet line or other pipeline  that presents access                                                               
to tidewater also  makes it feasible to deliver to  areas that do                                                               
not  freeze up.   This  would provide  the advantage  of periodic                                                               
deliveries  to  communities  and could  significantly  reduce  or                                                               
eliminate  storage  facilities  that  are  necessary  in  Western                                                               
Alaska.   He reviewed  pricing issues,  pointed out  that propane                                                               
has 2/3 the BTU value of diesel.   He related a scenario in which                                                               
the  value of  diesel was  $4.   This would  require $6  worth of                                                               
propane  to be  equivalent.   He pointed  out that  propane would                                                               
need to  be sold at $6.50  per gallon to be  equivalent to $9.85.                                                               
Thus, any cost  under $6.50 per gallon would  represent a savings                                                               
to consumers.   He pointed out that propane is  2.5 times the BTU                                                               
value  of  methane.    He  stated that  it  is  concentrated  but                                                               
consumers  are  familiar  with  its  use.    He  compared  it  to                                                               
liquefied  natural  gas which  is  cryogenic  and transported  at                                                               
minus  270  degrees  and  must   be  transported  in  specialized                                                               
containers or the  metal will crystallize and break  at the lower                                                               
temperatures.   Currently,  the competition  between distributors                                                               
keeps  the cost  competitive. In  areas without  competition, the                                                               
utilities have  banded together to  make aggregated  purchases to                                                               
reduce  competition costs.   When  the utilities  distribute fuel                                                               
the Regulatory Commission  of Alaska (RCA) requires  them to pass                                                               
on distribution  savings to consumers.   He noted  that sometimes                                                               
the distribution charges  create the highest cost.   He suggested                                                               
an electric  coop might bring in  fuel at a reasonable  price and                                                               
turn it over  to the village corporation or  local government who                                                               
must  then store  it and  pay storage  costs.   Additionally, the                                                               
fuel  is  marked  up  by  communities short  of  funds  since  it                                                               
provides the  only source of  income.   He characterized it  as a                                                               
tough situation since  the parties charge a high  price to locals                                                               
in order to survive financially.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:59:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  referred to potential uses.   He said that  even if the                                                               
electric issues  are solved the  home energy cost problem  is not                                                               
solved despite  the work that has  been done with wind  power and                                                               
other  alternative power.   He  related that  Southcentral Alaska                                                               
pays  about  the  same  for  home heating  as  electricity.    In                                                               
Fairbanks  home  heating  costs   twice  as  much  whereas  rural                                                               
Alaskans pay  four times as  much for  home heating.   He pointed                                                               
out  that  this is  where  propane  can  assist homeowners.    He                                                               
recalled that the  cost of a tank and unit,  including fuel for a                                                               
month cost $3,000  to convert a home to propane.   He referred to                                                               
a chart titled, AEA Regional Energy  Cost, August 2008, page 5 of                                                               
his  report,  titled   "Propane  Production,  Transportation  and                                                               
Utilization in  Rural and Urban  Alaska."  He compared  the costs                                                               
between  Southeast   Alaska,  Anchorage,  Fairbanks,   and  Rural                                                               
Alaska.  The lowest costs were  in Southeast Alaska at $5,000 per                                                               
year, Anchorage at  $8,000, Fairbanks at $9,000  and Rural Alaska                                                               
at  $12,000.   He stated  that  20.2 percent  of total  household                                                               
income is  spent on energy in  rural Alaska.  He  highlighted the                                                               
need to  have a comprehensive program  if the overall goal  is to                                                               
lower household energy  costs to make it affordable.   Some areas                                                               
of the  urban part  of the  state are not  served because  of low                                                               
density  housing.    He  stated  that even  if  the  natural  gas                                                               
pipeline  were  to be  built  to  Fairbanks approximately  60,000                                                               
people would  not be served by  a natural gas pipeline.   Propane                                                               
can fill the gap.  Propane  would be an ideal fuel for electrical                                                               
generation because the motors do not  wear out as fast as diesel.                                                               
He reported that diesel engines  can be retrofitted by installing                                                               
an input  orifice on the intake  manifold to inject propane  in a                                                               
mixture of up to 25  percent without further modifications to the                                                               
unit which  will burn cleaner.   Additionally, propane generators                                                               
operate  on  a  much  lower   maintenance  schedule  than  diesel                                                               
generators,  he  said.    He   stated  in  areas  in  which  wind                                                               
generators are  used the diesel  generator will still  run unless                                                               
the wind  generators are continuously operating  which makes them                                                               
less  efficient.    However,   using  propane  generators  allows                                                               
scalability so the  generator works in conjunction  with the wind                                                               
generator  according to  the  wind.   He  characterized  it as  a                                                               
better fit  with wind energy  in addition to better  air quality.                                                               
He stated  that the  Donlin Creek  mine is  installing generators                                                               
that  can  burn  diesel,  methane  or propane.    He  touched  on                                                               
conditions  that can  trigger necessity  to  add scrubbers  which                                                               
illustrated that propane may work well for mining operations.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:05:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  discussed marine  transportation costs.   In  the Lower                                                               
48,  the medium  and smaller  sized trucks  run on  propane.   He                                                               
related that the  cost is $.50 per gallon to  truck a single bulk                                                               
tank of  10,000 gallons or  two 20 foot  ISOs.  These  limits are                                                               
consistent with  weight restrictions on  the Dalton Highway.   He                                                               
compared  barge costs  for  shipping 100  pounds  from Nenana  to                                                               
Tanana at $.65  per gallon, Nenana to Galena at  $.80 per gallon,                                                               
and Nenana to St. Marys at  $1.57 per gallon.  He projected costs                                                               
for North Slope  propane at $2, plus transportation  costs of $2,                                                               
would  total $4,  which  would  be equivalent  to  $6 for  diesel                                                               
costs.   He referred to  the ISO containers  previously mentioned                                                               
noting  the   many  attributes  such   as  stacking   on  barges,                                                               
portability,  and  that they  can  also  serve  as storage  in  a                                                               
village.  Additionally, wheels can be added, he said.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:07:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  inquired as to whether  there are special                                                               
hazardous restrictions on transporting propane tanks.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FUHS  answered no.  He  pointed out that restrictions  do not                                                               
apply  even  on  bulk  barge.   He  commented  that  the  propane                                                               
requires more storage  than diesel, but a propane  tank farm does                                                               
not require any berm or liners  since the fuel is a "green" fuel.                                                               
He recalled  the Denali Commission  still has about  $200 million                                                               
in outstanding  tank replacements in  villages.  He  related that                                                               
if cost  savings can  be shown that  the Denali  Commission would                                                               
substitute propane tanks instead of diesel fuel tanks.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:08:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER inquired as to  the amount of propane that                                                               
could be carried in one tank truck.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FUHS  answered that  approximately  2,500  barrels could  be                                                               
transported  per tank  truck.   He projected  that a  bullet line                                                               
would  produce 12,000  barrels of  propane per  day.   He related                                                               
that shipment to tidewater in  Southcentral Alaska is the easiest                                                               
to serve  and the hardest is  in Western Alaska.   He stated that                                                               
he considered direct  shipments from the North  Slope which would                                                               
pose  some additional  issues.   The  ocean depths  on the  North                                                               
Slope  are shallow  so  a berthing  facility  would be  required.                                                               
While an existing  dock exists the facility  is extensively used.                                                               
The most likely customers would be  the Red Dog Mine and regional                                                               
fuel  hubs  like Nome  or  Bethel.  He discussed  some  technical                                                               
issues including  50 percent  more storage.   Since  propane does                                                               
not vaporize below  minus 45 degrees modifications  would need to                                                               
be made  for extreme cold.   One solution is to  create an Arctic                                                               
grade of propane  by adding additional ethane.   Another solution                                                               
may be to bury the tank.   The University of Alaska Cold Regional                                                               
Research Facility in Fairbanks studied  this and the temperatures                                                               
did  not  exceed minus  19  degrees.    He  pointed out  that  an                                                               
alternative  supply is  necessary in  case of  any disruption  of                                                               
supply, which  could be  handled by shipping  on rail.   Finally,                                                               
training is required to ensure safe operations.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:14:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER commented  that this is an  exciting prospect for                                                               
rural  Alaska.   He  offered his  belief that  the  Bush will  be                                                               
interested.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PRUITT agreed  propane represents  great potential  for                                                               
rural areas.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER also commented by  referring to a quote on                                                               
whether there is anything that cannot be done.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PETERSEN has  used propane  for many  years.   He                                                               
pointed out  that propane creates  a value-added product  for the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PRUITT agreed  that propane may serve as  a bridge until                                                               
new technology is developed.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FOSTER related  that some propane is being  used in Nome                                                               
so making the transition seemed feasible.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:19:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special Committee on Energy meeting was adjourned at 4:19 p.m.